I’ve commented on this in several other threads lately - why does Lucee 5 Express come with Tomcat 9 while Lucee 6 Express comes with Tomcat 8? That’s a big step backwards!
Also, it causes an error message during startup, which is caused by Tomcat 8 not being able to handle a certain kind of class, but Tomcat 9 can handle it fine. I reported that here on August 7:
I never got any answer, nobody ever replied. Maybe they will now!
Question: have you ever tried getting the ExpressVersion with Tomcat 9 und replacing the 5.4 lucee.jar inside the lib folder with the 6.1 standalone lucee.jar? I know it’s not what we want… but should serve as a workaround.
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Hi @andreas , thanks for the link. I hadn’t seen that. Thanks also for the tip.
Anyway, I should say that I am astonished. The fact that Lucee Express 6.1.0.243 uses Tomcat 8 is not only a bug. It is a blunder. I say this because the release is still available for download and is even recommended as “production-ready”.
It’s now several months. The current production-ready release, Lucee-Express-6.1.1.118, uses Tomcat 8.0.36. I begin to wonder whether anyone in the Lucee Team is aware of this.
The last version, 6.0.whatever, did too! The Lucee 5 Express releases used Tomcat 9, so this is ridiculous. I pointed it out repeatedly on the forum, as did others, a long time ago.
It’s a horribly bad look, to the outside world it screams “amateur hour”. MONTHS going by with MULTIPLE “production ready” Express downloads using an old Tomcat version that causes problems, with lots of people on the forum pointing it out OVER AND OVER, and it never gets fixed.
If you’re a serious software engineer or corporation considering using Lucee, how would this look? Horrible. You’d avoid Lucee and use something else instead.
Not everyone needs a full install for their production. Some people, myself included, have their needs met quite satisfactorily with the Express version, and don’t need or want the complexity of a full install. For example, hobbyists writing and using code on localhost-only with themselves as the only user. Express is simple and ideal for that, and many other limited use-cases.
Most importantly of all, for almost anyone evaluating Lucee for possible install and serious public-facing enterprise use, the Express .ZIP is their first stop for testing and evaluation before deciding to commit to using Lucee, and this “production-ready”-marked Express problem with the old Tomcat version 8 (after two releases and many months after multiple people pointing out the problem) gives a VERY bad and off-putting look, and can prevent lots of people from adopting Lucee at all due to a perception that they’ll likely get a lack of quality and timely support and timely fixing of problems.
Are there bugs, absolutely.
Will there be more bugs, of course.
Go out to the project, fork it, add the fix and ask nicely for someone to upgrade it.
if you want it fixed, fork it, option 1
Sponsor the bug - option 2
Upgrade the code manually - option 3.
Move to AFC - Pay Thousands of dollars each year for bugs, and sluggish if ever responses - Option 4
Insulting the developers on here with non professional , non-constructive remarks is not only a waste of everyone’s time, but a reflection upon you.
I realize it’s a free product with limited development resources. My point is that this particular bug is very important and should be prioritized, because it will turn off lots of people who are evaluating Lucee for use in their organization, which is very bad.
Also, Lucee 5 Express used Tomcat 9, so it shouldn’t be too difficult to just make Lucee 6 do that exact same thing that was already being done in 5.
Most users of Lucee don’t have the technical skills to fork it and fix the problem themselves. They’re users, not developers. If your car’s transmission starts failing, you don’t want the repair shop to tell you, “Just fix it yourself!” Few car users have those skills.
My remarks were statements of fact. It is, indeed, a very bad, off-putting look and will deter adoption of Lucee. It’s not “non-professional” or “insulting” when I and others point out that the issue is very harmful, will deter adoption of the product and should therefore be prioritized for fixing.
No offense is meant. Lucee’s an amazing product and it’s free. The developers are highly skilled and have done great things. We’re just hoping one of them can spend the small amount of time that’d be needed to simply make 6 Express use the same current Tomcat that 5 Express did.
If a car company gave you a free car
The cars transmission is outdated, as the new XPS car should have a new XPS transmission that is zippier than last years transmission.
However, if the car manufacturer does not offer a new transmission, or doesn’t offer to send a technician to install it for you, free of charge, right now, you will drive your old car.
@Terry_Whitney , as far as I can see, no one has insulted anyone. The main remarks consist of feedback from Lucee users, and so are professional and constructive. They help improve the application server.
Actually, remarks such as the one I am now responding to are the kind that could be considered non-professional and non-constructive.
Ill stand by my statements, and in short if you do not like anything happening in open source:
Raise the bug & ask someone else to fix it for you.
Fork it & or fix it yourself
Sponsor the fix
Dont use it.
Last thing the Lucee or any open source team needs is someone calling them names as they didnt get what they want when they want it. There are thousands of open source projects of all sizes that have regressions, and in this case, call a regression bug for lucee express"unprofessional" - to have a regression bug pop up again, is out of line.
You do not have to like my statements, or even agree with them. When it comes to the lucee project, and open source in general - I found the persons statements offensive and I will not re-cant or back down on that stance.
There’s nothing wrong with pointing out issues on this forum. Identifying and discussing challenges here is entirely appropriate… it’s one of the core purposes of this space. In fact, the Lucee team has encouraged raising concerns here before officially filing a bug (though I personally find this approach unusual).
The core frustration raised by the OP (and echoed by others) seems to stem not just from the regression itself, but from the lack of response after it was brought to attention. This is an entirely valid concern.
At my workplace, our quality docs regarding customer engagement categorize feedback, and our response to it, into three types: good news, bad news, and no news. While good news is obviously ideal, bad news - while not desirable - is crucial for improving products and processes. The only truly unacceptable response is no response at all, as it conveys a lack of care for the issue, the customer, or the quality of the work.
I understand the urge to push back when feedback feels like an unwarranted or personal attack, especially when directed at a product offered for free. However, I don’t believe that’s the situation here. Additionally, responses like “if you don’t like it, do it yourself or pay someone to do it” aren’t constructive. These comments risk discouraging participation in this forum… a result that would harm this community far more than it would help.
What I can see from the Lucee Downloads is the following:
Lucee Versions < 6.0 had at one point in the past the Tomcat Version 9.0 bundled and since then all the snapshots have been bundled with Tomcat 9.0: also 5.4 LTS including all snapshots come with Tomcat 9.
Lucee Version >=6.0 have usually been published with Tomcat 8.0, but the Releases up to 6.0.4.10 with Tomcat 9.0. All the snapshots around that versions are still bundled with Tomcat 8.0.
To me it looks like the publishing of Lucee >= 6.0 have never been really been deployed automatically to be delivered with Tomcat 9.0. Maybe the Releases up to 6.0.4.10 have been deployed manually (also the missing snapshot date suggest something like that)
I’m pretty sure the Lucee Team has this well in mind: There have been work going on regarding the deployment lately, but looks like it’s going to be published with Lucee 6.2. See: Jira
However, there is still the workaround available by downloading 5.4 LTS and just switch the lucee.jar. To update Tomcat 9 to latest version, the following post may help: Upgrade tomcat 9 server wont start (RESOLVED) (its for ubuntu, but the procedure should be very alike on other OS)
