Oracle/Java Greed, Lucee's Future?

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1

All, I just came across this link:

And wanted to know if anybody has looked into changing Lucee’s base or
looking into something to rid Lucee of its Java underpinnings maybe?

Just curious what you all think since it has left a bad taste in my mouth.

I really don’t like Oracle (One Raging Asshole Called Larry Ellison, as
someone called it) nor its databases.
Thanks,
Tom

2

Realistically this doesn’t affect lucee users does it? As for the systems that they are charging for lucee will not be used (Lucee powered DVD player anyone?)

Not sure how you could re-write it with anything else? Back to c++ maybe?

Or move to Node?

Mark Drew

  • Sent by typing with my thumbs.> On 19 Dec 2016, at 07:25, Thomas Loyd <@Thomas_Loyd> wrote:

All, I just came across this link:
Oracle finally targets Java non-payers – six years after plucking Sun • The Register

And wanted to know if anybody has looked into changing Lucee’s base or looking into something to rid Lucee of its Java underpinnings maybe?

Just curious what you all think since it has left a bad taste in my mouth.

I really don’t like Oracle (One Raging Asshole Called Larry Ellison, as someone called it) nor its databases.
Thanks,
Tom

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3

I read this article, the commercial bits article and a number of other
articles related to Oracle vs Google. It seems to me that normal use of
Lucee on the Java JDK does not fall under the commercial bits license. But
I am not a lawyer nor have a talked to a lawyer about it.

Andrew Penhowood

4

Out of the box: no. But the main risk I see is a monitoring solution
reading one of the proprietary JMX beans.

Apparently that can only happen when you use --XX:+UnlockCommercialFeatures
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/7u4-relnotes-1575007.html so
you really have to jump through hoops to be affected.

JochemOn Dec 19, 2016 2:50 PM, “Jochem van Dieten” wrote:

5

I think the real question might be “how well does Lucee run on OpenJDK?”.
That appears to avoid the whole Oracle problem.

Andrew PenhorwoodOn Monday, December 19, 2016 at 11:02:50 AM UTC-5, Andrew Penhorwood wrote:

I read this article, the commercial bits article and a number of other
articles related to Oracle vs Google. It seems to me that normal use of
Lucee on the Java JDK does not fall under the commercial bits license. But
I am not a lawyer nor have a talked to a lawyer about it.

Andrew Penhowood

6

It would be far easier to just deploy your Lucee server with OpenJDK. It’s
GPL2, so I’d imagine (IANAL) that these concerns do not apply. Even though
the code originated with Oracle it has different licensing and legal terms.

JoeOn Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 4:09 AM, Thomas Loyd <@Thomas_Loyd> wrote:

Mark,
I’m making the assumption for now that it won’t affect us yet. However,
Oracle’s corporate greed knows no bounds. I’m just curious as to what are
the future potentials for Lucee if the Java ecosystem becomes
unfriendly/untenable due to Oracle’s need to charge/monetize (monetise for
all the Brits out there). I love having CFML in a user-friendly and
open-source format. I just feel that it may be time to start
“alternativizing” in case this happens.

Node looks to be a potential maybe, or python?
Tom

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7

You can check it you yourself by doing

docker run -p 8888:8888 lucee/lucee5

That is running on tomcat and openJDK AFAIK,

Mark Drew

CMD
develop • deploy • deliver
http://cmdhq.io+44 7971 852296> On Dec 19, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Andrew Penhorwood <@Andrew_Penhorwood> wrote:

I think the real question might be “how well does Lucee run on OpenJDK?”. That appears to avoid the whole Oracle problem.

Andrew Penhorwood

On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 11:02:50 AM UTC-5, Andrew Penhorwood wrote:> I read this article, the commercial bits article and a number of other articles related to Oracle vs Google. It seems to me that normal use of Lucee on the Java JDK does not fall under the commercial bits license. But I am not a lawyer nor have a talked to a lawyer about it.

Andrew Penhowood

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8

I think the real question might be “how well does Lucee run on OpenJDK?”.
That appears to avoid the whole Oracle problem.

Only thing I encountered in the last 4 years (including Railo) is some jpg
encoding in cfdocument PDF generation that was caused by a 8+ year old
itext version. Oracle Java continues to ship with sun.* classes that have
been deprecated since forever, and OpenJDK is more proactive in removing
them.
But that is all using the packages from Debian / CentOS, I never tried
OpenJDK on Windows.

JochemOn Dec 19, 2016 3:12 PM, “Andrew Penhorwood” wrote:

9

That said, I doubt most Lucee users are using any of the commercial bits
outlined here:
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/products/index.html

Out of the box: no. But the main risk I see is a monitoring solution
reading one of the proprietary JMX beans. If for instance the Java Agent of
Zabbix were to do so, that could affect a lot of people. So I am glad that
on January 1st my second to last machine with Oracle Java will be
decommissioned. Go OpenJDK!

Jochem

JoeOn Dec 19, 2016 11:45 AM, “Joseph Gooch” wrote:

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Joseph Gooch <@Joseph_Gooch> wrote:

It would be far easier to just deploy your Lucee server with OpenJDK.
It’s GPL2, so I’d imagine (IANAL) that these concerns do not apply. Even
though the code originated with Oracle it has different licensing and legal
terms.

Joe

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 4:09 AM, Thomas Loyd <@Thomas_Loyd> wrote:

Mark,
I’m making the assumption for now that it won’t affect us yet. However,
Oracle’s corporate greed knows no bounds. I’m just curious as to what are
the future potentials for Lucee if the Java ecosystem becomes
unfriendly/untenable due to Oracle’s need to charge/monetize (monetise for
all the Brits out there). I love having CFML in a user-friendly and
open-source format. I just feel that it may be time to start
“alternativizing” in case this happens.

Node looks to be a potential maybe, or python?
Tom

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10

It is open source as is so I am sure there can be forks and the source is “out there” so despite asking for licensing for the special embedded systems I am not sure what they can do now the genie is out of the bag?

Mark Drew

CMD
develop • deploy • deliver
http://cmdhq.io+44 7971 852296> On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:09 AM, Thomas Loyd <@Thomas_Loyd> wrote:

Mark,I’m making the assumption for now that it won’t affect us yet. However, Oracle’s corporate greed knows no bounds. I’m just curious as to what are the future potentials for Lucee if the Java ecosystem becomes unfriendly/untenable due to Oracle’s need to charge/monetize (monetise for all the Brits out there). I love having CFML in a user-friendly and open-source format. I just feel that it may be time to start “alternativizing” in case this happens.

Node looks to be a potential maybe, or python?
Tom

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