What might also be worth looking at is Dash for macOS - API Documentation Browser, Snippet Manager - Kapeli. Offline
documentation browsing and searching for Mac users.
And Windows users: http://zealdocs.org/.
I use it, it’s pretty handy.On Tuesday, 17 February 2015 23:17:21 UTC+13, Dominic Watson wrote:
–
Adam
And Windows users: http://zealdocs.org/
http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fzealdocs.org%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNG98YrxVs9gOFYjmrbXI_LThyAmow
.
Didn’t know about that and Linux users too - thanks Adam!
Point well made re Association steer. I’ll push to bring documentation up
in the next association meeting (which are regular). By then, the chief
concern (the website) should be well under way or in an acceptable place.
My point of bringing up Dash is that, in these early stages, I think Lucee
would do well to design a documentation system that is easily ported and
built with different distributions in mind. JSON endpoint for the reference
docs for example? Hell yeah. Let people build whatever plugins they need
for whatever tooling they are using and do it without duplication of effort
and computing power. Make editing the source of this documentation easy. If
on BitBucket, there are inline editing tools, give people sufficient
instructions on how to make a pull request. Not quite as easy as direct
inline editing of a wiki page, but far more powerful and useful.
Keep the ideas and links coming at this point I say, while influence can
still be had. Getting the docs “right” will be a huge win.On 17 February 2015 at 20:59, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron1> wrote:
On 18 February 2015 at 09:34, Risto <@Risto> wrote:
Stupid question of course, but Dash/Zeal already have Coldfusion docs.
Couldn’t that be duped and then remove stuff Lucee doesn’t support and add
additional stuff Lucee does support?
Seems like a quicker way to get a nice documentation set for Dash/Zeal.And could possibly become the basis for the content on the full docs
website too.(although there’s push back as to whether this should be automated (to
save developer time), or done by hand (to be actually useful)).–
Adam–
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Stupid question of course, but Dash/Zeal already have Coldfusion docs.
Couldn’t that be duped and then remove stuff Lucee doesn’t support and add
additional stuff Lucee does support?
Seems like a quicker way to get a nice documentation set for Dash/Zeal.
And could possibly become the basis for the content on the full docs
website too.
(although there’s push back as to whether this should be automated (to save
developer time), or done by hand (to be actually useful)).On 18 February 2015 at 09:34, Risto <@Risto> wrote:
–
Adam
Sorry, maybe need to add a little more to that, you can have custom page
templates (as Adam’s suggests - very good idea), integrates with JIRA, has
a Q&A plugin (Stackoverflow style), different spaces for different types of
documents, e.g. Installation guides, language syntax, etc… Also there is
a ton of access controls, etc… as well so it could be highly customised
towards the communities requirements.
Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon
mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee http://lucee.org - MemberOn 17 February 2015 at 23:53, Andrew Dixon <@Andrew_Dixon> wrote:
As we are using BitBucket and JIRA is coming along (soon I believe) can I
put forward the suggestion of using Confluence (
Confluence | Your Remote-Friendly Team Workspace | Atlassian) which as an open source
project we can get for free (
Confluence - Pricing | Atlassian) and Atlassian will
even host it for us on their “cloud” solution.Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon
mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee http://lucee.org - MemberOn 17 February 2015 at 23:41, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron1> wrote:
On 18 February 2015 at 10:49, Dominic Watson <@Dominic_Watson> wrote:
Point well made re Association steer. I’ll push to bring documentation
up in the next association meeting (which are regular). By then, the chief
concern (the website) should be well under way or in an acceptable place.My point of bringing up Dash is that, in these early stages, I think
Lucee would do well to design a documentation system that is easily ported
and built with different distributions in mind. JSON endpoint for the
reference docs for example? Hell yeah. Let people build whatever plugins
they need for whatever tooling they are using and do it without duplication
of effort and computing power. Make editing the source of this
documentation easy. If on BitBucket, there are inline editing tools, give
people sufficient instructions on how to make a pull request. Not quite as
easy as direct inline editing of a wiki page, but far more powerful and
useful.Keep the ideas and links coming at this point I say, while influence can
still be had. Getting the docs “right” will be a huge win.Nice one Dom.
If you’ll just let me push for human-written (as opposed to automated)
docs some more.If “we” were to come up with a decent template for a function / tag doc
wiki page, then we can facilitate humans maintaining the content (big win)
and make it reasonably easy to then reduce that back to a JSON treatment
which is publicly exposed for other people to generate their Dash docs,
Sublime Text plug-ins, docs shipped in Lucee Admin etc.Speaking for myself: I’ll fix docs provided I can click a button and type
the fix in and submit it. I won’t edit an XML or a JSON file. And I sure
as shit won’t fork stuff, do pull reqs etc simply to help someone with
their docs. Quite simply because this is the 21stC, and computers are
supposed to serve the humans, not the other way around. The UI for data
entry should suit the “U” in “UI”, and that is a person.–
Adam–
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Agree with Adam and Dominic. Seems some research and discussion (started
here) would be beneficial before jumping into a solution.
If it’s easy to update I believe more people will. Wiki edits are easy -
for example FW/1. Click. Edit. Save. Done.
If I have to pull code, edit, submit a merge request etc. that
unfortunately probably is not going to happen.
Not sure why we have to reinvent the wheel here - what are other languages
doing for docs??
Never heard of Dash/Zeal before but that looks incredibly useful!!
Jim>
As we are using BitBucket and JIRA is coming along (soon I believe) can I
put forward the suggestion of using Confluence (
Confluence | Your Remote-Friendly Team Workspace | Atlassian) which as an open source
project we can get for free (
Confluence - Pricing | Atlassian) and Atlassian will
even host it for us on their “cloud” solution.
Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon
mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee http://lucee.org - MemberOn 17 February 2015 at 23:41, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron1> wrote:
On 18 February 2015 at 10:49, Dominic Watson <@Dominic_Watson> wrote:
Point well made re Association steer. I’ll push to bring documentation up
in the next association meeting (which are regular). By then, the chief
concern (the website) should be well under way or in an acceptable place.My point of bringing up Dash is that, in these early stages, I think
Lucee would do well to design a documentation system that is easily ported
and built with different distributions in mind. JSON endpoint for the
reference docs for example? Hell yeah. Let people build whatever plugins
they need for whatever tooling they are using and do it without duplication
of effort and computing power. Make editing the source of this
documentation easy. If on BitBucket, there are inline editing tools, give
people sufficient instructions on how to make a pull request. Not quite as
easy as direct inline editing of a wiki page, but far more powerful and
useful.Keep the ideas and links coming at this point I say, while influence can
still be had. Getting the docs “right” will be a huge win.Nice one Dom.
If you’ll just let me push for human-written (as opposed to automated)
docs some more.If “we” were to come up with a decent template for a function / tag doc
wiki page, then we can facilitate humans maintaining the content (big win)
and make it reasonably easy to then reduce that back to a JSON treatment
which is publicly exposed for other people to generate their Dash docs,
Sublime Text plug-ins, docs shipped in Lucee Admin etc.Speaking for myself: I’ll fix docs provided I can click a button and type
the fix in and submit it. I won’t edit an XML or a JSON file. And I sure
as shit won’t fork stuff, do pull reqs etc simply to help someone with
their docs. Quite simply because this is the 21stC, and computers are
supposed to serve the humans, not the other way around. The UI for data
entry should suit the “U” in “UI”, and that is a person.–
Adam–
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Yes, support fort Dash would be awesome!Am Dienstag, 17. Februar 2015 12:51:24 UTC+1 schrieb Nando Breiter:
- 1 on the Dash suggestion! In addition to making the Lucee docs
conveniently accessible, it might also help introduce Lucee to a broad
audience of developers.
Why doesn’t someone who wants this format actually put their hand up and *do
something about it*?
Well, partly because I would miss your rants about this… 
Point well taken.
Let’s focus on getting a main docs site of some description sorted out
first.
Depending on how that is done, someone can run a side project to convert
that to being Dash-ready. Having looked at scraping the CF9 docs from the
Adobe site, it was structured well enough to just use CFHTTP and JSoup to
extract the content into standardised JSON files, from which point it won’t
me very difficult to covert to Dash’s format. So similar can be easily
enough done from Lucee’s docs when they’re done. Or as a first step,
someone could do what Mark’s done with the Railo source in the past to
generate the content for the Railo Docs site.
This does not have to be the business of The Lucee Association though (and
shouldn’t be).
Why doesn’t someone who wants this format actually put their hand up and do
something about it?–
Adam
On 18 February 2015 at 06:59, <@lutz> wrote:
Yes, support fort Dash would be awesome!
Am Dienstag, 17. Februar 2015 12:51:24 UTC+1 schrieb Nando Breiter:
- 1 on the Dash suggestion! In addition to making the Lucee docs
conveniently accessible, it might also help introduce Lucee to a broad
audience of developers.–
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What might also be worth looking at is Dash for macOS - API Documentation Browser, Snippet Manager - Kapeli. Offline
documentation browsing and searching for Mac users. Compatibility with that
system would be a bonus.
Adam, I wonder if it is because people don’t want to be duplicating effort.
As far as I can tell from what I have read here Mark Drew is already
working on a docs site and therefore it would seem silly to me (if I was
thinking of doing it) to do it as Mark is already (as far as I know) doing
it. If that is not the case then fine, Mark doesn’t have an obligation to
do it of course, but we still need some way of organising who is doing it
don’t we, or am I missing some sort of unwritten open source project
protocol?
Kind regards,
Andrew
http://about.me/andrew_dixonOn 17 February 2015 at 18:40, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron1> wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 February 2015 07:31:35 UTC+13, lu...@lesener.de wrote:
Why doesn’t someone who wants this format actually put their hand up and *do
something about it*?
Well, partly because I would miss your rants about this…
Point well taken.You worry about the docs… I’ll worry about the rants. Deal?
–
Adam–
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Andy Jarett and I made a Dash docset ages ago for the RailoDocs. Not too
hard to generate now from the the system, so I can have a look at that.
I have created the repo and put the first non-working cut of luceedocs.org
on it: GitHub - cybersonic/luceedocs: Documentation website and generator for Lucee Server
If you have ideas and stuff, it’s hard to follow on the mailing list (time
differences, busyness) so just add a ticket and we can discuss it there.
MDOn Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 11:49:50 AM UTC, Nando Breiter wrote:
My point of bringing up Dash is that, in these early stages, I think Lucee
would do well to design a documentation system that is easily ported and
built with different distributions in mind.I could be mistaken regarding the current ACF11 docset, but I remember
that the Dash developer had noted that the ACF documentation was difficult
and time consuming to import into Dash. If he can’t automate the process,
then I would assume that the imported docset would go stale (in our case,
perhaps rather quickly, since we’ll all soon be continuously improving the
Lucee docs
I wouldn’t mind helping out with doc contributions. I just need to be
steered in the right direction and where to contribute.
As an aside, one thing I’d really like us to do is to provide examples with
their actual result! As a trivial example for left()
string = ‘Dan is cool’;
left(string, 3); //>> ‘Dan’
I really appreciate the way Ruby’s docs show the result in the sample
usage. CF’s docs are all snippets of text (usually with some sort of form),
that I would need to copy, put it in a random CFM run the snippet to see
exactly what the output is. It drives me nuts, all I want to see is what
the result is after the function call.On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 4:56:51 AM UTC-6, Nando Breiter wrote:
The Lucee docs lack code examples. Sometimes these aren’t needed, just the
method or tag signature is enough to work it out. But especially for
newbies, code examples would be very helpful.As developers, we are all pressed for time, and I think we tend to value
using our time efficiently to maximum effect, we don’t like squandering it.As an open source project, Lucee needs us to step up and contribute. One
area where we all can help is documentation. The question is how can we
make this simple and efficient for Lucee devs?So here’s a suggestion.
On the Lucee docs site, for each method or tag there would be a link to
contribute a code example. Clicking on it opens a textarea field to paste a
code example, a gist. Over time, a variety of code examples would
accumulate. None of them would need to show how to use every feature of the
method or tag. All that would be asked is that the gist show a working
example.Contributing devs would not need to set aside dedicated time to develop
examples. Leave a browser tab open to the docs site, and in the flow of
your daily work, copy and paste a real working code example, especially if
it is one that you would normally save to a snippet to remind yourself of
the syntax.These gists would all be keyed to the function or tag name, and stored in
such a way that both the website docs and docs installed on each server
could pull them in and display them.The key concepts here are 1) make it very quick and easy to contribute
examples, so Lucee devs would not need to interrupt the flow of their daily
work, and 2) store the examples keyed to the function or tag name so they
can be used across versions so the examples are preserved across version
releases.The examples could also have some meta data as to the version, for
example, but I would not introduce that in such a way that it would slow
contributors down. Maybe the assumption could be that a contribution is
made against the current stable version, as the default, and allow the
contributor to change it.I think Mark Drew is developing a docs website for Lucee. If he hasn’t
thought of this already, I’m suggesting it as an enhancement.Aria Media Sagl
Via Rompada 40
6987 Caslano
Switzerland+41 (0)91 600 9601
+41 (0)76 303 4477 cell
skype: ariamedia
I guess that comes back to the question of what we want this to be, do we
want it to be a free-for-all or some more controlled and curated.
Confluence lends itself more to the controlled and curated side I think.
Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon
mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee http://lucee.org - MemberOn 18 February 2015 at 07:04, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron1> wrote:
On 18 February 2015 at 19:42, Michael van Leest <@Michael_van_Leest> wrote:
Confluence is more a internal documentation tool, not really a public
system if I understand.Adobe uses it for their CF docs. Not tat that’s a recommendation of any
sort, but it’s a statement of fact. It’s OK, but rather quirky when it
comes to formatting stuff, sometimes.–
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Also, here is the dashdocs that Andy Jarrett and I did:
GitHub - andyj/dash-docset-railo: Railo docset for Dash https://github.com/andyj/dash-docset-railo
regards
Mark Drew
develop • deploy • deliver
http://charliemikedelta.com ttp://charliemikedelta.com> On 18 Feb 2015, at 18:04, Mark Drew <@Mark_Drew> wrote:
Andy Jarett and I made a Dash docset ages ago for the RailoDocs. Not too hard to generate now from the the system, so I can have a look at that.
I have created the repo and put the first non-working cut of luceedocs.org on it: GitHub - cybersonic/luceedocs: Documentation website and generator for Lucee Server
If you have ideas and stuff, it’s hard to follow on the mailing list (time differences, busyness) so just add a ticket and we can discuss it there.
MD
On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 11:49:50 AM UTC, Nando Breiter wrote:
My point of bringing up Dash is that, in these early stages, I think Lucee would do well to design a documentation system that is easily ported and built with different distributions in mind.
I could be mistaken regarding the current ACF11 docset, but I remember that the Dash developer had noted that the ACF documentation was difficult and time consuming to import into Dash. If he can’t automate the process, then I would assume that the imported docset would go stale (in our case, perhaps rather quickly, since we’ll all soon be continuously improving the Lucee docs
–
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Confluence is more a internal documentation tool, not really a public
system if I understand.2015-02-18 0:58 GMT+01:00 Andrew Dixon <@Andrew_Dixon>:
Sorry, maybe need to add a little more to that, you can have custom page
templates (as Adam’s suggests - very good idea), integrates with JIRA, has
a Q&A plugin (Stackoverflow style), different spaces for different types of
documents, e.g. Installation guides, language syntax, etc… Also there is
a ton of access controls, etc… as well so it could be highly customised
towards the communities requirements.Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon
mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee http://lucee.org - MemberOn 17 February 2015 at 23:53, Andrew Dixon <@Andrew_Dixon> wrote:
As we are using BitBucket and JIRA is coming along (soon I believe) can I
put forward the suggestion of using Confluence (
Confluence | Your Remote-Friendly Team Workspace | Atlassian) which as an open source
project we can get for free (
Confluence - Pricing | Atlassian) and Atlassian
will even host it for us on their “cloud” solution.Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon
mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee http://lucee.org - MemberOn 17 February 2015 at 23:41, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron1> wrote:
On 18 February 2015 at 10:49, Dominic Watson <@Dominic_Watson wrote:
Point well made re Association steer. I’ll push to bring documentation
up in the next association meeting (which are regular). By then, the chief
concern (the website) should be well under way or in an acceptable place.My point of bringing up Dash is that, in these early stages, I think
Lucee would do well to design a documentation system that is easily ported
and built with different distributions in mind. JSON endpoint for the
reference docs for example? Hell yeah. Let people build whatever plugins
they need for whatever tooling they are using and do it without duplication
of effort and computing power. Make editing the source of this
documentation easy. If on BitBucket, there are inline editing tools, give
people sufficient instructions on how to make a pull request. Not quite as
easy as direct inline editing of a wiki page, but far more powerful and
useful.Keep the ideas and links coming at this point I say, while influence
can still be had. Getting the docs “right” will be a huge win.Nice one Dom.
If you’ll just let me push for human-written (as opposed to automated)
docs some more.If “we” were to come up with a decent template for a function / tag doc
wiki page, then we can facilitate humans maintaining the content (big win)
and make it reasonably easy to then reduce that back to a JSON treatment
which is publicly exposed for other people to generate their Dash docs,
Sublime Text plug-ins, docs shipped in Lucee Admin etc.Speaking for myself: I’ll fix docs provided I can click a button and
type the fix in and submit it. I won’t edit an XML or a JSON file. And I
sure as shit won’t fork stuff, do pull reqs etc simply to help someone with
their docs. Quite simply because this is the 21stC, and computers are
supposed to serve the humans, not the other way around. The UI for data
entry should suit the “U” in “UI”, and that is a person.–
Adam–
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–
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Michael van Leest
Confluence is more a internal documentation tool, not really a public
system if I understand.
Adobe uses it for their CF docs. Not tat that’s a recommendation of any
sort, but it’s a statement of fact. It’s OK, but rather quirky when it
comes to formatting stuff, sometimes.On 18 February 2015 at 19:42, Michael van Leest <@Michael_van_Leest> wrote:
My point of bringing up Dash is that, in these early stages, I think Lucee
would do well to design a documentation system that is easily ported and
built with different distributions in mind.
I could be mistaken regarding the current ACF11 docset, but I remember that
the Dash developer had noted that the ACF documentation was difficult and
time consuming to import into Dash. If he can’t automate the process, then
I would assume that the imported docset would go stale (in our case,
perhaps rather quickly, since we’ll all soon be continuously improving the
Lucee docs
