Cfml server vs standalone application

About 2 years ago we binned all of our CF/Railo servers on to which we
deployed applications and moved to a model where each application (logical
app not cfml application) is deployed in its own instance of Railo (soon to
be Lucee once we finish testing) in its own JVM. To do this we package our
app as a war, and embedded it with tomcat in an executable jar. This jar
is then deployed out to the cluster.

We treat Lucee & tomcat as project dependencies, not as a resource or
server required to deploy onto. This might not be to everyone’s taste, but
it works well for our workflow, and we do half a dozen deployments to our
staging servers some days.

In this model the whole server/web config hierarchy becomes unnecessary,
there just needs to be one config. We don’t use the admin web ui once the
app is packaged, in fact we have to explicitly block access to it, so it’d
be nice to be able to disable it. Also applications are free to change
Lucee versions independently of each other, without requiring a server
upgrade and affecting/testing every other app currently running.

Looking at other platforms, like Play Framework and Grails which have some
parallels with Lucee, they support a standalone packaging mechanism, as
well as WAR packaging.

I’ve seen a lot of effort in the community around installers and connectors
(all good work obviously) but it’s all intended to mimic the behaviour or
of ColdFusion, and I’m not sure that’s A Good Thing

If I can package my app in a discrete executable format (and I’ve coded it
to play nicely in a cluster) then I can easily deploy it on 2, 10 or 100
nodes to achieve scale. I think its this kind of feature that will get a
platform adopted, not how easy it is to do virtual hosting.

There was probably a point to this when I started writing it a couple of
days a go, but I’ve lost it now, or maybe a while back tbh. So i’m just
going to hit send as I’m curious to see what others think of this as a
packaging a deployment model.

Chris

I for one would love to see the process you are using written up as
explicitly as possible somewhere. I agree with your approach and angle
completely, would be great to see some tooling/guides to achieve what you
want in the “best” manner.On 4 March 2015 at 10:18, Chris Blackwell <@Chris_Blackwell> wrote:

About 2 years ago we binned all of our CF/Railo servers on to which we
deployed applications and moved to a model where each application (logical
app not cfml application) is deployed in its own instance of Railo (soon to
be Lucee once we finish testing) in its own JVM. To do this we package our
app as a war, and embedded it with tomcat in an executable jar. This jar
is then deployed out to the cluster.

We treat Lucee & tomcat as project dependencies, not as a resource or
server required to deploy onto. This might not be to everyone’s taste, but
it works well for our workflow, and we do half a dozen deployments to our
staging servers some days.

In this model the whole server/web config hierarchy becomes unnecessary,
there just needs to be one config. We don’t use the admin web ui once the
app is packaged, in fact we have to explicitly block access to it, so it’d
be nice to be able to disable it. Also applications are free to change
Lucee versions independently of each other, without requiring a server
upgrade and affecting/testing every other app currently running.

Looking at other platforms, like Play Framework and Grails which have some
parallels with Lucee, they support a standalone packaging mechanism, as
well as WAR packaging.

I’ve seen a lot of effort in the community around installers and
connectors (all good work obviously) but it’s all intended to mimic the
behaviour or of ColdFusion, and I’m not sure that’s A Good Thing

If I can package my app in a discrete executable format (and I’ve coded it
to play nicely in a cluster) then I can easily deploy it on 2, 10 or 100
nodes to achieve scale. I think its this kind of feature that will get a
platform adopted, not how easy it is to do virtual hosting.

There was probably a point to this when I started writing it a couple of
days a go, but I’ve lost it now, or maybe a while back tbh. So i’m just
going to hit send as I’m curious to see what others think of this as a
packaging a deployment model.

Chris


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read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any
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Cosham, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO6 3EB

About 2 years ago we binned all of our CF/Railo servers on to which we
deployed applications and moved to a model where each application (logical
app not cfml application) is deployed in its own instance of Railo (soon to
be Lucee once we finish testing) in its own JVM. To do this we package our
app as a war, and embedded it with tomcat in an executable jar. This jar
is then deployed out to the cluster.

We go as far as packaging it as a war, but don’t embed it with Tomcat. I’m
not all that concerned about putting Tomcat outside the development scope
and in the sysadmin scope, it has never given us much trouble. And the
effect is the same, the sysadmin can do his thing with the tools he is used
to (apt-get or yum), and there us just one additional package from the
buildserver of the development team.

I’ve seen a lot of effort in the community around installers and connectors

(all good work obviously) but it’s all intended to mimic the behaviour or
of ColdFusion, and I’m not sure that’s A Good Thing

If I can package my app in a discrete executable format (and I’ve coded it
to play nicely in a cluster) then I can easily deploy it on 2, 10 or 100
nodes to achieve scale. I think its this kind of feature that will get a
platform adopted, not how easy it is to do virtual hosting.

The type of packaging I would like to see is operating system native
packaging, i.e. .rpm or .deb. Once you have that it is really just a matter
if adding the right repo to your package manager. I have in the past looked
into what it would take to create a Debian package for Railo, but even if I
build on existing packaging projects (i.e. tomcat, tomcat-user etc.) I
found it rather daunting.

JochemOn Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Chris Blackwell wrote:


Jochem van Dieten
http://jochem.vandieten.net/

Hi Chris,

Cool stuff

Checkout
http://cfmlprojects.org/artifacts/org/lucee/lucee.pomparent.heroku.runwar/

runwar is the project by Denny and its used by Commandbox too

AOn 5 March 2015 at 17:52, Chris Blackwell <@Chris_Blackwell> wrote:

Hi Alex,

I had a quick look at undertow this afternoon, it looks very interesting.
I’ve whipped up very rough example of running lucee with undertow here -
https://github.com/d1rtym0nk3y/lucee-runner

Once built you can just do

java -jar LuceeRunner.jar /path/to/webroot

Let me know if you have any thought on where this could go, or if it looks
useful

In railo-heroku-template I opted for environment variables because thats
what heroku supports. In our production apps we use a param in
META-INF/context.xml that defines a default location for the config file

This can be retrieved in your application by
getPageContext().getServletContext().getInitParameter(‘configFile’);

This param gets overridden by the maven profiles to provide different
configs for dev, test and staging

Cheers, Chris

On 5 March 2015 at 11:05, Alex Skinner <@Alex_Skinner> wrote:

I have been talking a lot to Micha about things similar to this

Take a look at http://12factor.net I’d like a build of Lucee which has
no admin and that the dependencies are injected into your application using
environment variables.

You can see an example of this here
https://github.com/alexskinner/railo-heroku-template/blob/master/webroot/Application.cfc

In an ideal world I think there would be an inheritence model such that
you could set your setting in either

  1. The application.cfc (In my opinion very wrong because its config in
    code)
  2. In The xml file (Via the admin if you must)
  3. Injected in via environment variables.
  4. Your app gets given its config based on what it is and what
    environment its on from a central config server (We have this working for
    our needs)

You are right to point out that a lot of the deployment methods being
talked about are quite traditional though we are also working on an
NGINX/Undertow combo for very lightweight deployment.

Pixl8 is also working on a Server manager product that allows
multi-lucee instance management and injection of environments settings.

A

On 4 March 2015 at 20:32, Geoff Parkhurst <@Geoff_Parkhurst> wrote:

On 4 March 2015 at 10:18, Chris Blackwell <@Chris_Blackwell> wrote:

In this model the whole server/web config hierarchy becomes
unnecessary,
there just needs to be one config. We don’t use the admin web ui once
the
app is packaged, in fact we have to explicitly block access to it, so
it’d
be nice to be able to disable it.

+1 to that… remove it entirely as an option.

It’s certainly cut down the attack surface.


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Alex Skinner
Managing Director

Pixl8 Interactive, 3 Tun Yard, Peardon Street, London
SW8 3HT, United Kingdom

T: +44 [0] 845 260 0726* W: www.pixl8.co.uk* E: info@pixl8.co.uk

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do not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any
attachments. Instead, please email it back to the sender and then
immediately permanently delete it. Pixl8 Interactive Ltd Registered in
England. Registered number: 04336501. Registered office: 8 Spur Road,
Cosham, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO6 3EB


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Alex Skinner
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Pixl8 Interactive, 3 Tun Yard, Peardon Street, London
SW8 3HT, United Kingdom

T: +44 [0] 845 260 0726* W: www.pixl8.co.uk* E: info@pixl8.co.uk

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do not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any
attachments. Instead, please email it back to the sender and then
immediately permanently delete it. Pixl8 Interactive Ltd Registered in
England. Registered number: 04336501. Registered office: 8 Spur Road,
Cosham, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO6 3EB

very nice Chris!

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org http://lucee.org/On 3/5/2015 9:52 AM, Chris Blackwell wrote:

Hi Alex,

I had a quick look at undertow this afternoon, it looks very interesting.
I’ve whipped up very rough example of running lucee with undertow here

Once built you can just do

java -jar LuceeRunner.jar /path/to/webroot

Let me know if you have any thought on where this could go, or if it
looks useful

In railo-heroku-template I opted for environment variables because
thats what heroku supports. In our production apps we use a param in
META-INF/context.xml that defines a default location for the config file

This can be retrieved in your application by
getPageContext().getServletContext().getInitParameter(‘configFile’);

This param gets overridden by the maven profiles to provide different
configs for dev, test and staging

Cheers, Chris

On 5 March 2015 at 11:05, Alex Skinner <@Alex_Skinner mailto:Alex_Skinner> wrote:

I have been talking a lot to Micha about things similar to this

Take a look at http://12factor.net  I'd like a build of Lucee
which has no admin and that the dependencies are injected into
your application using environment variables.

You can see an example of this
here https://github.com/alexskinner/railo-heroku-template/blob/master/webroot/Application.cfc

In an ideal world I think there would be an inheritence model such
that you could set your setting in either 

1. The application.cfc (In my opinion very wrong because its
config in code)
2. In The xml file (Via the admin if you must)
3. Injected in via environment variables.
4. Your app gets given its config based on what it is and what
environment its on from a central config server (We have this
working for our needs)

You are right to point out that a lot of the deployment methods
being talked about are quite traditional though we are also
working on an NGINX/Undertow combo for very lightweight deployment.

Pixl8 is also working on a Server manager product that allows
multi-lucee instance management and injection of environments
settings.

A

On 4 March 2015 at 20:32, Geoff Parkhurst <@Geoff_Parkhurst <mailto:@Geoff_Parkhurst>> wrote:

    On 4 March 2015 at 10:18, Chris Blackwell <@Chris_Blackwell <mailto:@Chris_Blackwell>> wrote:
    > In this model the whole server/web config hierarchy becomes unnecessary,
    > there just needs to be one config. We don't use the admin
    web ui once the
    > app is packaged, in fact we have to explicitly block access
    to it, so it'd
    > be nice to be able to disable it.

    +1 to that... remove it entirely as an option.

    It's certainly cut down the attack surface.

    --
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-- 
Alex Skinner
Managing Director
	
	
Pixl8 Interactive, 3 Tun Yard, Peardon Street, London
SW8 3HT, United Kingdom



T: +44 [0] 845 260 0726• W: www.pixl8.co.uk
<http://www.pixl8.co.uk>• E: info@pixl8.co.uk
<mailto:info@pixl8.co.uk>



	

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Hi Alex,

I had a quick look at undertow this afternoon, it looks very interesting.
I’ve whipped up very rough example of running lucee with undertow here -

Once built you can just do

java -jar LuceeRunner.jar /path/to/webroot

Let me know if you have any thought on where this could go, or if it looks
useful

In railo-heroku-template I opted for environment variables because thats
what heroku supports. In our production apps we use a param in
META-INF/context.xml that defines a default location for the config file

This can be retrieved in your application by
getPageContext().getServletContext().getInitParameter(‘configFile’);

This param gets overridden by the maven profiles to provide different
configs for dev, test and staging

Cheers, ChrisOn 5 March 2015 at 11:05, Alex Skinner <@Alex_Skinner> wrote:

I have been talking a lot to Micha about things similar to this

Take a look at http://12factor.net I’d like a build of Lucee which has
no admin and that the dependencies are injected into your application using
environment variables.

You can see an example of this here
https://github.com/alexskinner/railo-heroku-template/blob/master/webroot/Application.cfc

In an ideal world I think there would be an inheritence model such that
you could set your setting in either

  1. The application.cfc (In my opinion very wrong because its config in
    code)
  2. In The xml file (Via the admin if you must)
  3. Injected in via environment variables.
  4. Your app gets given its config based on what it is and what environment
    its on from a central config server (We have this working for our needs)

You are right to point out that a lot of the deployment methods being
talked about are quite traditional though we are also working on an
NGINX/Undertow combo for very lightweight deployment.

Pixl8 is also working on a Server manager product that allows
multi-lucee instance management and injection of environments settings.

A

On 4 March 2015 at 20:32, Geoff Parkhurst <@Geoff_Parkhurst> wrote:

On 4 March 2015 at 10:18, Chris Blackwell <@Chris_Blackwell> wrote:

In this model the whole server/web config hierarchy becomes unnecessary,
there just needs to be one config. We don’t use the admin web ui once
the
app is packaged, in fact we have to explicitly block access to it, so
it’d
be nice to be able to disable it.

+1 to that… remove it entirely as an option.

It’s certainly cut down the attack surface.


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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


Alex Skinner
Managing Director

Pixl8 Interactive, 3 Tun Yard, Peardon Street, London
SW8 3HT, United Kingdom

T: +44 [0] 845 260 0726• W: www.pixl8.co.uk• E: info@pixl8.co.uk

Follow us on: Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pixl8 Twitter
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do not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any
attachments. Instead, please email it back to the sender and then
immediately permanently delete it. Pixl8 Interactive Ltd Registered in
England. Registered number: 04336501. Registered office: 8 Spur Road,
Cosham, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO6 3EB


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I have been talking a lot to Micha about things similar to this

Take a look at http://12factor.net I’d like a build of Lucee which has no
admin and that the dependencies are injected into your application using
environment variables.

You can see an example of this here

In an ideal world I think there would be an inheritence model such that you
could set your setting in either

  1. The application.cfc (In my opinion very wrong because its config in code)
  2. In The xml file (Via the admin if you must)
  3. Injected in via environment variables.
  4. Your app gets given its config based on what it is and what environment
    its on from a central config server (We have this working for our needs)

You are right to point out that a lot of the deployment methods being
talked about are quite traditional though we are also working on an
NGINX/Undertow combo for very lightweight deployment.

Pixl8 is also working on a Server manager product that allows
multi-lucee instance management and injection of environments settings.

AOn 4 March 2015 at 20:32, Geoff Parkhurst <@Geoff_Parkhurst> wrote:

On 4 March 2015 at 10:18, Chris Blackwell <@Chris_Blackwell> wrote:

In this model the whole server/web config hierarchy becomes unnecessary,
there just needs to be one config. We don’t use the admin web ui once the
app is packaged, in fact we have to explicitly block access to it, so
it’d
be nice to be able to disable it.

+1 to that… remove it entirely as an option.

It’s certainly cut down the attack surface.


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Alex Skinner
Managing Director

Pixl8 Interactive, 3 Tun Yard, Peardon Street, London
SW8 3HT, United Kingdom

T: +44 [0] 845 260 0726* W: www.pixl8.co.uk* E: info@pixl8.co.uk

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