I think there are two ‘stigmas’ associated with ColdFusion - one is held by
Developers, and the other is held by Customers, Companies, and Managers.
Addressing the Developer stigma to me is only something that can be done by
addressing the second. The second stigma I think is well founded. It is
also the one that Lucee can most easily address.
Regarding the foundations of this stigma, I think there are many root
causes. I can’t speak for everyone, nor why people may be opposed to CF,
but I will list a couple of points I think have always gotten in the way of
broader CF adoption.
- Cost - If it’s going to cost you north of $10k to run a server stack
- that is a mighty high hurdle to start off.
- Legacy nightmares - There is a lot of very ugly old CF code out there
that people are afraid of touching. It works enough, but it’s an O&M money
pit and customers don’t get what they want.
- Replacement - If someone’s going to do a replacement for these legacy
beasts - are they going to stick with CF? There is a good chance the
language will get the blame for problems.
- Staffing - Finding good CF developers is very hard and is also
- Managers - A lot of the IT managers at places will be former
developers. If they aren’t technical people, they will probably ask
around. So any CF proposal will probably hit the ‘developer’ stigma.
I think a lot of the ‘stigma’ for CF is that it’s too easy to do good
What starts as the department ‘Computer Guy’ building a one page listing of
people in a department, eventually evolves into into the company phone
book. That is then expanded to be part of the job board as well.
‘Computer Guy’ is still stuck maintaining it, but ‘Computer Guy’ is not a
developer, and now he does mostly help desk work. No one’s happy about the
‘application’. No one wants to touch the code base. The company has to pay
$x,000 every few years to upgrade the server license. Everyone knows it’s
going to be expensive when it finally does have to be fixed.
That ‘application’ is not a selling point for CF. That is where I think
the stigma comes from. Why when people think of CF, they think of
applications like that, which were never really planned out, never cleaned
up, just had more and more stuff glommed onto them.
That example could as easily be applied to PHP, or any other language, I
know. But CF has been around for long enough that there are a lot of those
types of apps out there.
So how can Lucee address that situation? Personally, I think it needs to
differentiate itself from CF. It’s fine to acknowledge the support for
CFML - but I think it needs to sell itself as a ‘v2’ of the language. I
think Lucee needs to ‘win back’ the people who have given up on CF because
of the ‘stigma’.
Chip.On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 9:28:39 PM UTC-4, Peter Boughton wrote:
Splitting out of the “arguments against .lucee extension” thread,
because this is really a separate issue to that.
I don’t yet have an opinion on the new language/dialect/whatever stuff;
my views are mixed but not yet sufficiently formed to put into useful
words. Nothing here is against that, but merely challenging the
Breaking away from the stigma and baggage of CFML is a valid concern
Is it really?
Every time I’ve seen anyone talk about the reasons for the stigma it
has been identified as from developers who are holding on to a view
from CF5 or CF6.0 - i.e. specifically ColdFusion, and yeah, there’s
also FUD about tags and internal derision aimed at people that stick to
what they know, but is any of this actually a valid concern?
I mean beyond the egos of people that find themselves saying “I use
Lucee, it’s CFML but better than ColdFusion, yes that ColdFusion but
it’s really better now, no that was ten years ago and Lucee is
different and I AM A REAL PROGRAMMER!!!”
To be clear, I’m not saying there isn’t a stigma at all, what I am
questioning is how much it’s tied to the term “CFML” and - more so -
whether it actually matters anyway.
If Lucee is aiming to grow its user base, the easiest target audience
is likely to be those that have not yet settled on a particular language
choice yet, (as opposed to trying to wow people away from what they are
already happy with using).
How many new developers are going to say: “oh look, this Lucee thing
looks easy and fun, but wait what’s this CFML thing, oh, it seems to be
an evolution of a language that a decade back lots of people hated, so
now I’m going to forget about Lucee despite all its positives”?
I don’t think most relevant people will care about the history, and I
doubt even those that might are going to reach that conclusion - not if
Lucee actually provides a reason to attract fresh blood, and for sure
not enough to make so much effort/fuss about distancing from CFML.
It’s late here and this all might just be tired ravings which are making
too much of a fuss about not making a fuss. It’s certainly longer than
originally intended/expected to be, but hopefully it holds at least
partially valid considerations or provokes some useful thinking.