We’re waiting to upgrade from Railo 4.2 until Lucee 5 is released. I know
it’s been in beta for a while… just curious if anyone has heard of a
timeline.
There’s no official timeline, though obviously LAS are keen to release it
as early as possible (while being confident in the release). What is
causing you to wait? Avoiding the work of multiple upgrades? If for no
other reason, I’d switch to Lucee now to get the benefit of fixes to the
4.x series that won’t necessarily be making their way to Railo.
DominicOn 16 September 2015 at 20:25, JP <@JP1> wrote:
We’re waiting to upgrade from Railo 4.2 until Lucee 5 is released. I know
it’s been in beta for a while… just curious if anyone has heard of a
timeline.–
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While I am curious when this will come out as well, I am happy its just
getting done and will be done when its done. This model is far better than
ACF which rushes to build a product on a 2 year cycle and then spends the
next 12 months patching all the problems they had as it was not properly
tested.On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 3:25:07 PM UTC-4, JP wrote:
We’re waiting to upgrade from Railo 4.2 until Lucee 5 is released. I know
it’s been in beta for a while… just curious if anyone has heard of a
timeline.
I’m waiting because I have a stable Railo environment
(Windows/IIS/Tomcat/BonCode) and in my first attempt to migrate to Lucee on
my local server, was not straight forward. I might give it another try, but
I don’t want to spend time on it if Lucee 5 is right around the corner.On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 1:25:07 PM UTC-6, JP wrote:
We’re waiting to upgrade from Railo 4.2 until Lucee 5 is released. I know
it’s been in beta for a while… just curious if anyone has heard of a
timeline.
then spends the next 12 months patching all the
problems they had as it was not properly tested.
Hah! If only!
CF11 has been out 16 months and still has numerous issues.
(But yes, the longer Lucee 5 takes the better, to make sure it’s done
right. There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.)
There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.
Also I think the upgrade path Railo 4.x to Lucee 4.5 to Lucee 5 will be
easier than Railo 4.x to Lucee 5 TBH, so I would say anyone still using
Railo should upgrade ASAP given that there have been several Lucee releases
with security patches for issues that are also present in Railo as well.
Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon - mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee
Association Member http://lucee.orgOn 19 September 2015 at 18:34, Peter Boughton <@Peter_Boughton> wrote:
then spends the next 12 months patching all the
problems they had as it was not properly tested.Hah! If only!
CF11 has been out 16 months and still has numerous issues.
(But yes, the longer Lucee 5 takes the better, to make sure it’s done
right. There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.)–
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to HAH!!
I was being kind. CF9 let alone CF10 still have issues. As for 11, MEH!!
Lets destroy all that functionality we sold you as we kicked the original
devs to the curve and now We are not sure how the hell they did any of it.
Instead, here is a great feature we spent maybe 10 minutes of integrating a
third party tool into our application, and then we will spend at least half
our time marketing it as such a great feature. Never mind the fact you can
just go sign up for mobile development yourself, this adds custom tag, and
you like tag. Its a big hit with all our Macromedia MX folks, and you
should like it too.On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 3:25:07 PM UTC-4, JP wrote:
We’re waiting to upgrade from Railo 4.2 until Lucee 5 is released. I know
it’s been in beta for a while… just curious if anyone has heard of a
timeline.
Lucee 4.5 will likely break most sites now running Railo 4.2. Nulls
handling is different/error prone even with the flag turned off.
If taking the plunge modify all cfparam and applicable cfargument calls
from default=“#myquery.field#” to default=“#‘’ & myquery.field#”.
before porting the site. Null may exist as a concept; but, far too few of
the built in tags and functions know about it yet. Variable not defined /
not found may now be translated as " lucee null value there but not really
detected ".
Also, the events engine has issues but can be made to work (try putting
your cfc in the same WEB-INF folder as Lucee’s) - plan on possibly some
hair pulling to get a simple directory watcher to work correctly.
If your relying on plugins from 4.2, then don’t upgrade yet - most of them
have yet to ported to Lucee 4.5 and the bulk of plugins we might want
probably won’t be available until version 5 is production ready.
Railo plugins will attempt to install but fail to run in lucee - probably
mostly do to differences in the context names and folder locations.
If you have the ability to edit your plugin, you can probably craft a Lucee
version of it, given enough time and effort.
Bottom line … ya, stick with 4.2 for existing sites until 5 gets past the
beta stage.
But, if need to port, take steps above, in advance, to reduce downtime;
and, don’t expect that to be all that is needed.
If your starting a new site, and don’t need any plugins, 4.5 is probably
better to start out with than 4.2, as there will be less to fix/change
later.
Also for new sites, set null handing to full. It’s buggy otherwise anyway.On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 3:25:07 PM UTC-4, JP wrote:
We’re waiting to upgrade from Railo 4.2 until Lucee 5 is released. I know
it’s been in beta for a while… just curious if anyone has heard of a
timeline.
Is that with full support enabled? I have partial support enabled (as this
was our Railo setting) and I do not see that issue with the following
snippet:
<cfset testNullSupport() />
If the issue you described exists with the partial support setting, that
would be a huge undertaking to find all uses of structKeyExists for
non-required arguments in functions. Hoping that is not the case.On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Jon Clausen <@Jon_Clausen> wrote:
The one issue I’ve seen in 4.5 is that structKeyExists() returns true even
when an argument isn’t passed to a function. It’s actually an improvement,
IMHO. I just changed those to isNull() and saved a few keystrokes.On Sep 28, 2015, at 2:11 PM, Scott Smith <@Scott_Smith> wrote:
Can Ed (or anyone else) provide clarification to the concerns about null
select 'test' as myfield
handling on 4.5? We are nearing the end stages of preparation for a server
relocation during which we will be moving from Railo 4.1 to Lucee 4.5. We
haven’t seen any major incompatibilities as of yet, but wanted to make sure
I understand what is being conveyed about this null handling issue. I
created this quick snippet to test default behavior for arguments and
params, and everything seems to be fine. Is there something I am missing
here?<cfset testNullSupport() />
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Ed Sanford, ODI Consulting. < @Ed_Sanford_ODI_Cons1> wrote:
Lucee 4.5 will likely break most sites now running Railo 4.2. Nulls
handling is different/error prone even with the flag turned off. If before
taking the plunge modify all cfparam and applicable cfargument calls from
default=“#myquery.field#” to default=“#‘’ & myquery.field#”. Also, the
events engine has issues but can be made to work - plan on possibly some
hair pulling to get a simple directory watcher to work correctly.
If your relying on plugins from 4.2, then don’t upgrade yet - none of
them have been ported to lucee yet - is suspect everyone is waiting for
version 5 to avoid re-inventing the wheel twice.
Bottom line … ya, stick with 4.2 for existing sites until 5 is ready
for production environments.
If your starting a new site, and don’t need any plugins, 4.5 is probably
better to start out with than 4.2, as there will be less to fix/change
later. Also for new sites, set null handing to full. It’s buggy otherwise
anyway.If I had more time, I’d patch 4.5 cfparam, cfargument and assorted other
functions to handle nulls intelligently, without generating unneeded
errors; but, I work for a small shop and we don’t get a whole lot of spare
time; so, if someone with the time could do so, that would be a huge help
to the community at large; and, would make it less painful for all of us
Railo lovers to upgrade sites.Not to mention, we still want to bring other CFML folks over too. Maybe
once we get to version 8 we can convince users of other languages to start
looking this way. Ability to run existing sites off the new server is
going to remain more important to the long term survival of the project
than adding new dialects, especially when there are not really any real
benifits to using the new dialects.Right now, there’s no compelling reason for anyone, in the CFML world or
out of it, to switch over yet.On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 6:17:31 AM UTC-4, Andrew Dixon wrote:
There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.
Also I think the upgrade path Railo 4.x to Lucee 4.5 to Lucee 5 will be
easier than Railo 4.x to Lucee 5 TBH, so I would say anyone still using
Railo should upgrade ASAP given that there have been several Lucee releases
with security patches for issues that are also present in Railo as well.Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon - mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee
Association Member http://lucee.orgOn 19 September 2015 at 18:34, Peter Boughton lu...@sorcerersisle.com wrote:
then spends the next 12 months patching all the
problems they had as it was not properly tested.Hah! If only!
CF11 has been out 16 months and still has numerous issues.
(But yes, the longer Lucee 5 takes the better, to make sure it’s done
right. There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.)–
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The one issue I’ve seen in 4.5 is that structKeyExists() returns true even when an argument isn’t passed to a function. It’s actually an improvement, IMHO. I just changed those to isNull() and saved a few keystrokes. :)> On Sep 28, 2015, at 2:11 PM, Scott Smith <@Scott_Smith> wrote:
Can Ed (or anyone else) provide clarification to the concerns about null handling on 4.5? We are nearing the end stages of preparation for a server relocation during which we will be moving from Railo 4.1 to Lucee 4.5. We haven’t seen any major incompatibilities as of yet, but wanted to make sure I understand what is being conveyed about this null handling issue. I created this quick snippet to test default behavior for arguments and params, and everything seems to be fine. Is there something I am missing here?
select 'test' as myfield<cfset testNullSupport() />
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Ed Sanford, ODI Consulting. <@Ed_Sanford_ODI_Cons1> wrote:
Lucee 4.5 will likely break most sites now running Railo 4.2. Nulls handling is different/error prone even with the flag turned off. If before taking the plunge modify all cfparam and applicable cfargument calls from
default=“#myquery.field#” to default=“#‘’ & myquery.field#”. Also, the events engine has issues but can be made to work - plan on possibly some hair pulling to get a simple directory watcher to work correctly.
If your relying on plugins from 4.2, then don’t upgrade yet - none of them have been ported to lucee yet - is suspect everyone is waiting for version 5 to avoid re-inventing the wheel twice.
Bottom line … ya, stick with 4.2 for existing sites until 5 is ready for production environments.
If your starting a new site, and don’t need any plugins, 4.5 is probably better to start out with than 4.2, as there will be less to fix/change later. Also for new sites, set null handing to full. It’s buggy otherwise anyway.If I had more time, I’d patch 4.5 cfparam, cfargument and assorted other functions to handle nulls intelligently, without generating unneeded errors; but, I work for a small shop and we don’t get a whole lot of spare time; so, if someone with the time could do so, that would be a huge help to the community at large; and, would make it less painful for all of us Railo lovers to upgrade sites.
Not to mention, we still want to bring other CFML folks over too. Maybe once we get to version 8 we can convince users of other languages to start looking this way. Ability to run existing sites off the new server is going to remain more important to the long term survival of the project than adding new dialects, especially when there are not really any real benifits to using the new dialects.
Right now, there’s no compelling reason for anyone, in the CFML world or out of it, to switch over yet.
On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 6:17:31 AM UTC-4, Andrew Dixon wrote:
There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.
Also I think the upgrade path Railo 4.x to Lucee 4.5 to Lucee 5 will be easier than Railo 4.x to Lucee 5 TBH, so I would say anyone still using Railo should upgrade ASAP given that there have been several Lucee releases with security patches for issues that are also present in Railo as well.
Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me - mso - Lucee Association MemberOn 19 September 2015 at 18:34, Peter Boughton lu...@sorcerersisle.com wrote:
then spends the next 12 months patching all the
problems they had as it was not properly tested.Hah! If only!
CF11 has been out 16 months and still has numerous issues.
(But yes, the longer Lucee 5 takes the better, to make sure it’s done
right. There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.)–
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Scott,
I’ll have to dig in to it more closely, so consider me having spoken out of turn at the moment. I just tried it after starting up a Lucee instance and am seeing your results. The other day, though, I was working with the same server and config, and structKeyExists(arguments,arg) was returning true. Nothing fancy, just a loop over the argument collection was returning structKeyExists() as true for every argument.
I changed a number of fair number of references to use isNull(), thinking that it was a Lucee 4.5 issue, because of it. Not what happened then, but the issue is gone now.
I’ll see if I can duplicate it again and file a bug report. This particular app is still being deployed live on 4.2. I’m only developing with 4.5 at the moment.
That said, I haven’t experienced any massive issues with null support other than this one.
Is that with full support enabled? I have partial support enabled (as this was our Railo setting) and I do not see that issue with the following snippet:
<cfset testNullSupport() />
If the issue you described exists with the partial support setting, that would be a huge undertaking to find all uses of structKeyExists for non-required arguments in functions. Hoping that is not the case.
The one issue I’ve seen in 4.5 is that structKeyExists() returns true even when an argument isn’t passed to a function. It’s actually an improvement, IMHO. I just changed those to isNull() and saved a few keystrokes. 
Can Ed (or anyone else) provide clarification to the concerns about null handling on 4.5? We are nearing the end stages of preparation for a server relocation during which we will be moving from Railo 4.1 to Lucee 4.5. We haven’t seen any major incompatibilities as of yet, but wanted to make sure I understand what is being conveyed about this null handling issue. I created this quick snippet to test default behavior for arguments and params, and everything seems to be fine. Is there something I am missing here?
select 'test' as myfield<cfset testNullSupport() />
Lucee 4.5 will likely break most sites now running Railo 4.2. Nulls handling is different/error prone even with the flag turned off. If before taking the plunge modify all cfparam and applicable cfargument calls from
default=“#myquery.field#” to default=“#‘’ & myquery.field#”. Also, the events engine has issues but can be made to work - plan on possibly some hair pulling to get a simple directory watcher to work correctly.
If your relying on plugins from 4.2, then don’t upgrade yet - none of them have been ported to lucee yet - is suspect everyone is waiting for version 5 to avoid re-inventing the wheel twice.
Bottom line … ya, stick with 4.2 for existing sites until 5 is ready for production environments.
If your starting a new site, and don’t need any plugins, 4.5 is probably better to start out with than 4.2, as there will be less to fix/change later. Also for new sites, set null handing to full. It’s buggy otherwise anyway.
If I had more time, I’d patch 4.5 cfparam, cfargument and assorted other functions to handle nulls intelligently, without generating unneeded errors; but, I work for a small shop and we don’t get a whole lot of spare time; so, if someone with the time could do so, that would be a huge help to the community at large; and, would make it less painful for all of us Railo lovers to upgrade sites.
Not to mention, we still want to bring other CFML folks over too. Maybe once we get to version 8 we can convince users of other languages to start looking this way. Ability to run existing sites off the new server is going to remain more important to the long term survival of the project than adding new dialects, especially when there are not really any real benifits to using the new dialects.
Right now, there’s no compelling reason for anyone, in the CFML world or out of it, to switch over yet.
There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.
Also I think the upgrade path Railo 4.x to Lucee 4.5 to Lucee 5 will be easier than Railo 4.x to Lucee 5 TBH, so I would say anyone still using Railo should upgrade ASAP given that there have been several Lucee releases with security patches for issues that are also present in Railo as well.
Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me - mso - Lucee Association MemberOn September 28, 2015 at 3:31:58 PM, Scott Smith (@Scott_Smith) wrote:
On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Jon Clausen <@Jon_Clausen> wrote:
On Sep 28, 2015, at 2:11 PM, Scott Smith <@Scott_Smith> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Ed Sanford, ODI Consulting. <@Ed_Sanford_ODI_Cons1> wrote:
On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 6:17:31 AM UTC-4, Andrew Dixon wrote:
On 19 September 2015 at 18:34, Peter Boughton lu...@sorcerersisle.com wrote:
then spends the next 12 months patching all the
problems they had as it was not properly tested.
Hah! If only!
CF11 has been out 16 months and still has numerous issues.
(But yes, the longer Lucee 5 takes the better, to make sure it’s done
right. There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.)
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Can Ed (or anyone else) provide clarification to the concerns about null
handling on 4.5? We are nearing the end stages of preparation for a server
relocation during which we will be moving from Railo 4.1 to Lucee 4.5. We
haven’t seen any major incompatibilities as of yet, but wanted to make sure
I understand what is being conveyed about this null handling issue. I
created this quick snippet to test default behavior for arguments and
params, and everything seems to be fine. Is there something I am missing
here?
<cfset testNullSupport() />
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Ed Sanford, ODI Consulting. < @Ed_Sanford_ODI_Cons1> wrote:
Lucee 4.5 will likely break most sites now running Railo 4.2. Nulls
handling is different/error prone even with the flag turned off. If before
taking the plunge modify all cfparam and applicable cfargument calls from
default=“#myquery.field#” to default=“#‘’ & myquery.field#”. Also, the
events engine has issues but can be made to work - plan on possibly some
hair pulling to get a simple directory watcher to work correctly.
If your relying on plugins from 4.2, then don’t upgrade yet - none of them
have been ported to lucee yet - is suspect everyone is waiting for version
5 to avoid re-inventing the wheel twice.
Bottom line … ya, stick with 4.2 for existing sites until 5 is ready for
production environments.
If your starting a new site, and don’t need any plugins, 4.5 is probably
better to start out with than 4.2, as there will be less to fix/change
later. Also for new sites, set null handing to full. It’s buggy otherwise
anyway.If I had more time, I’d patch 4.5 cfparam, cfargument and assorted other
functions to handle nulls intelligently, without generating unneeded
errors; but, I work for a small shop and we don’t get a whole lot of spare
time; so, if someone with the time could do so, that would be a huge help
to the community at large; and, would make it less painful for all of us
Railo lovers to upgrade sites.Not to mention, we still want to bring other CFML folks over too. Maybe
once we get to version 8 we can convince users of other languages to start
looking this way. Ability to run existing sites off the new server is
going to remain more important to the long term survival of the project
than adding new dialects, especially when there are not really any real
benifits to using the new dialects.Right now, there’s no compelling reason for anyone, in the CFML world or
out of it, to switch over yet.On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 6:17:31 AM UTC-4, Andrew Dixon wrote:
There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.
Also I think the upgrade path Railo 4.x to Lucee 4.5 to Lucee 5 will be
easier than Railo 4.x to Lucee 5 TBH, so I would say anyone still using
Railo should upgrade ASAP given that there have been several Lucee releases
with security patches for issues that are also present in Railo as well.Kind regards,
Andrew
about.me http://about.me/andrew_dixon - mso http://www.mso.net - Lucee
Association Member http://lucee.orgOn 19 September 2015 at 18:34, Peter Boughton lu...@sorcerersisle.com wrote:
then spends the next 12 months patching all the
problems they had as it was not properly tested.Hah! If only!
CF11 has been out 16 months and still has numerous issues.
(But yes, the longer Lucee 5 takes the better, to make sure it’s done
right. There’s no point for anyone on Railo waiting for it.)–
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