Number of CFML developers?

Phillip,

I find Datomic very interesting as a database. It is fundamentally
different than relational databases in that the base unit of data isn’t a
table row, but a datom, which is defined as a tuple of entity, attribute,
value and transaction. Null values aren’t stored - they simply don’t exist.
Datoms are not overwritten when values change. Instead the old value is
“retracted” and the new value added. Thus you automatically have a complete
history of all data modifications that have occurred. Datomic uses Datalog
instead of SQL, so there is really something to sink your teeth into if you
want to be confused for awhile! :wink:

Aria Media Sagl
Via Rompada 40
6987 Caslano
Switzerland

+41 (0)91 600 9601
+41 (0)76 303 4477 cell
skype: ariamediaOn Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Jon Clausen <@Jon_Clausen> wrote:

I know, Igal… :wink:

On June 17, 2015 at 11:39:44 AM, Igal @ Lucee.org (@Igal) wrote:

It’s still SELECT * FROM Table1

yes, we realize that :wink:

we’re referring to the boilerplate code that is required in order to
connect to the database, and possibly to iterate over the returned record
set

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org http://lucee.org/
On 6/17/2015 8:33 AM, Jon Clausen wrote:

Phillip,

It’s still SELECT * FROM Table1, but in Coldfusion the datasource
connection is configured at the server leve, and the methods are native. In
NodeJS, for example, you need to add the library to connect to the specific
database type. Example for MySQL:

npm install node-mysql

Then:

//You can always scope this part globally in your application, but this is the connection config.
var mysql = require(‘mysql’);
var db = mysql.createConnection({
host : ‘localhost’,
user : ‘root’,
password : ‘’,
database : ‘my_database’
});

db.connect();
db.query(‘SELECT * from Table1’, function(err, rows, fields) {
//if no error, do stuff with your query result rows
if (!err){
for(var i in rows){
console.log(rows[i]);
}
} else {
throw err;
};
});
connection.end();

It’s a different approach. PHP is the same way, but the connectivity
modules are installed explicitly when installing the PHP packages (In PHP
5.6+, on many Linux distress, they’ve stopped including MySQL by default).
It’s one of the ways in which CFML is a more integrated and mature
language, as database connectivity is assumed at the application server
level.

Update: I saw Mark posted pretty much the same thing when I was typing
this so apologies for some duplication. :slight_smile:

On June 17, 2015 at 11:18:17 AM, Phillip Senn (@Phillip_Senn) wrote:

That’s funny Adam.

I guess that’s why I’ve never bothered to post it as a question on
stackoverflow.
Afraid of getting downvoted like so many of my questions do.
But I know the people in the cf community are a kinder, gentler people.

Seriously, how do you SELECT * FROM Table1 using any other web authoring
programming language?
I looked at node.js for a little while but couldn’t understand how to do
the same thing that cfquery does.

And I don’t think I want to jump from ColdFusion to php.
From the outside looking in, it looks like php is just another scripting
language so why not stick with the one that I already know?

If anything, moving from cfquery to using stored procedures has moved most
of my logic out of ColdFusion, so if I ever do decide to transition, there
will certainly be less to do than there was a year ago.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron> wrote:

On 16 June 2015 at 21:48, Phillip Senn <@Phillip_Senn> wrote:

OK, let me ask a stupid question but has been bugging me for a very long
time:

I’d focus less on this question and put effort into working out how to
use google.


Adam

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It’s still |SELECT * FROM Table1|
yes, we realize that :wink:

we’re referring to the boilerplate code that is required in order to
connect to the database, and possibly to iterate over the returned
record set

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org http://lucee.org/On 6/17/2015 8:33 AM, Jon Clausen wrote:

Phillip,

It’s still |SELECT * FROM Table1|, but in Coldfusion the datasource
connection is configured at the server leve, and the methods are
native. In NodeJS, for example, you need to add the library to connect
to the specific database type. Example for MySQL:

|npm install node-mysql
|

Then:

|//You can always scope this part globally in your application, but this is the connection config.
var mysql = require(‘mysql’);
var db = mysql.createConnection({
host : ‘localhost’,
user : ‘root’,
password : ‘’,
database : ‘my_database’
});

db.connect();
db.query(‘SELECT * from Table1’, function(err, rows, fields) {
//if no error, do stuff with your query result rows
if (!err){
for(var i in rows){
console.log(rows[i]);
}
} else {
throw err;
};
});
connection.end();

|

It’s a different approach. PHP is the same way, but the connectivity
modules are installed explicitly when installing the PHP packages (In
PHP 5.6+, on many Linux distress, they’ve stopped including MySQL by
default). It’s one of the ways in which CFML is a more integrated and
mature language, as database connectivity is assumed at the
application server level.

Update: I saw Mark posted pretty much the same thing when I was typing
this so apologies for some duplication. :slight_smile:

On June 17, 2015 at 11:18:17 AM, Phillip Senn (@Phillip_Senn mailto:Phillip_Senn) wrote:

That’s funny Adam.

I guess that’s why I’ve never bothered to post it as a question on
stackoverflow.
Afraid of getting downvoted like so many of my questions do.
But I know the people in the cf community are a kinder, gentler people.

Seriously, how do you SELECT * FROM Table1 using any other web
authoring programming language?
I looked at node.js for a little while but couldn’t understand how to
do the same thing that cfquery does.

And I don’t think I want to jump from ColdFusion to php.
From the outside looking in, it looks like php is just another
scripting language so why not stick with the one that I already know?

If anything, moving from cfquery to using stored procedures has moved
most of my logic out of ColdFusion, so if I ever do decide to
transition, there will certainly be less to do than there was a year ago.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron mailto:Adam_Cameron> wrote:

On 16 June 2015 at 21:48, Phillip Senn <@Phillip_Senn <mailto:@Phillip_Senn>> wrote:

    OK, let me ask a stupid question but has been bugging me for
    a very long time:

I'd focus less on this question and put effort into working out
how to use google.

-- 
Adam 
--
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This is one node.js way of doing it: node-mysql - npm https://www.npmjs.com/package/node-mysql

User.Table.find(conn, ‘select * from users’, cb);
Mark Drew

develop • deploy • deliver
http://charliemikedelta.com ttp://charliemikedelta.com> On 17 Jun 2015, at 16:23, Igal @ Lucee.org <@Igal> wrote:

@Phillip

I think it’s a perfectly valid question.

I’d be interested in seeing such comparison as well, but not interested to the point where I go research PHP/Ruby/Python/node.js – on my priority list this item is #16,384 (I’m currently at item #32 so I might get there on my own some day).

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org http://lucee.org/
On 6/17/2015 8:18 AM, Phillip Senn wrote:

That’s funny Adam.

I guess that’s why I’ve never bothered to post it as a question on stackoverflow.
Afraid of getting downvoted like so many of my questions do.
But I know the people in the cf community are a kinder, gentler people.

Seriously, how do you SELECT * FROM Table1 using any other web authoring programming language?
I looked at node.js for a little while but couldn’t understand how to do the same thing that cfquery does.

And I don’t think I want to jump from ColdFusion to php.
From the outside looking in, it looks like php is just another scripting language so why not stick with the one that I already know?

If anything, moving from cfquery to using stored procedures has moved most of my logic out of ColdFusion, so if I ever do decide to transition, there will certainly be less to do than there was a year ago.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron mailto:Adam_Cameron> wrote:

On 16 June 2015 at 21:48, Phillip Senn <@Phillip_Senn mailto:Phillip_Senn> wrote:
OK, let me ask a stupid question but has been bugging me for a very long time:

I’d focus less on this question and put effort into working out how to use google.


Adam

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I know, Igal… ;)On June 17, 2015 at 11:39:44 AM, Igal @ Lucee.org (@Igal) wrote:

It’s still SELECT * FROM Table1
yes, we realize that :wink:

we’re referring to the boilerplate code that is required in order to connect to the database, and possibly to iterate over the returned record set

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer

On 6/17/2015 8:33 AM, Jon Clausen wrote:
Phillip,

It’s still SELECT * FROM Table1, but in Coldfusion the datasource connection is configured at the server leve, and the methods are native. In NodeJS, for example, you need to add the library to connect to the specific database type. Example for MySQL:

npm install node-mysql

Then:

//You can always scope this part globally in your application, but this is the connection config.
var mysql = require(‘mysql’);
var db = mysql.createConnection({
host : ‘localhost’,
user : ‘root’,
password : ‘’,
database : ‘my_database’
});

db.connect();
db.query(‘SELECT * from Table1’, function(err, rows, fields) {
//if no error, do stuff with your query result rows
if (!err){
for(var i in rows){
console.log(rows[i]);
}
} else {
throw err;
};
});
connection.end();

It’s a different approach. PHP is the same way, but the connectivity modules are installed explicitly when installing the PHP packages (In PHP 5.6+, on many Linux distress, they’ve stopped including MySQL by default). It’s one of the ways in which CFML is a more integrated and mature language, as database connectivity is assumed at the application server level.

Update: I saw Mark posted pretty much the same thing when I was typing this so apologies for some duplication. :slight_smile:

On June 17, 2015 at 11:18:17 AM, Phillip Senn (@Phillip_Senn) wrote:

That’s funny Adam.

I guess that’s why I’ve never bothered to post it as a question on stackoverflow.
Afraid of getting downvoted like so many of my questions do.
But I know the people in the cf community are a kinder, gentler people.

Seriously, how do you SELECT * FROM Table1 using any other web authoring programming language?
I looked at node.js for a little while but couldn’t understand how to do the same thing that cfquery does.

And I don’t think I want to jump from ColdFusion to php.

@Phillip

I think it’s a perfectly valid question.

I’d be interested in seeing such comparison as well, but not interested
to the point where I go research PHP/Ruby/Python/node.js – on my
priority list this item is #16,384 (I’m currently at item #32 so I might
get there on my own some day).

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org http://lucee.org/On 6/17/2015 8:18 AM, Phillip Senn wrote:

That’s funny Adam.

I guess that’s why I’ve never bothered to post it as a question on
stackoverflow.
Afraid of getting downvoted like so many of my questions do.
But I know the people in the cf community are a kinder, gentler people.

Seriously, how do you SELECT * FROM Table1 using any other web
authoring programming language?
I looked at node.js for a little while but couldn’t understand how to
do the same thing that cfquery does.

And I don’t think I want to jump from ColdFusion to php.
From the outside looking in, it looks like php is just another
scripting language so why not stick with the one that I already know?

If anything, moving from cfquery to using stored procedures has moved
most of my logic out of ColdFusion, so if I ever do decide to
transition, there will certainly be less to do than there was a year ago.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron mailto:Adam_Cameron> wrote:

On 16 June 2015 at 21:48, Phillip Senn <@Phillip_Senn <mailto:@Phillip_Senn>> wrote:

    OK, let me ask a stupid question but has been bugging me for a
    very long time:

I'd focus less on this question and put effort into working out
how to use google.

-- 
Adam 
-- 
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Thanks everyone!
I didn’t know about node-mysql, partly because I’ve been a 100% Microsoft
SQL Server person, and partly because it might not have been around when I
was investigating node.js awhile back.

I just keep thinking “What’s everybody using if not ColdFusion? Is there
something that a new person would be guided to the way that I was guided to
Adobe ColdFusion 10+ years ago?”

But these answers have all been very helpful.

I think I’ll stick with Lucee and try to build a true community. That’s
another thing that’s been kicking around in my mind quite a bit. You may
have read some posts from me in the cfml craftsmanship group about a rating
system. I’ve been writing the code with the thought of rating HTML, CSS,
SQL Server, Lucee and JavaScript keywords.

I honestly think that I can make a contribution through writing a community
driven rating system.

I hired a couple of interns but the first thing that I found was that they
know 0% of even HTML. So I realized that they don’t need to learn 100% of
HTML - if I could show them the 20% that I use 80% of the time, then
that’s better than asking them to learn everything. So then apply that to
every technology that they have to learn, and you’ve saved a tremendous
amount of time getting someone up to speed (at least 80% up to speed).

So how do you define the top 20% of HTML? That’s where the rating system
comes in, but it’s complicated enough to warrant it’s own thread.

I call it “crowdsourcing education”. It’s the uber of education, baby!

(That last line was kind of an inside joke).
(Inside only to me)
(But I’m laughing).On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Jon Clausen <@Jon_Clausen> wrote:

Phillip,

It’s still SELECT * FROM Table1, but in Coldfusion the datasource
connection is configured at the server leve, and the methods are native. In
NodeJS, for example, you need to add the library to connect to the specific
database type. Example for MySQL:

npm install node-mysql

Then:

//You can always scope this part globally in your application, but this is the connection config.
var mysql = require(‘mysql’);
var db = mysql.createConnection({
host : ‘localhost’,
user : ‘root’,
password : ‘’,
database : ‘my_database’
});

db.connect();
db.query(‘SELECT * from Table1’, function(err, rows, fields) {
//if no error, do stuff with your query result rows
if (!err){
for(var i in rows){
console.log(rows[i]);
}
} else {
throw err;
};
});
connection.end();

It’s a different approach. PHP is the same way, but the connectivity
modules are installed explicitly when installing the PHP packages (In PHP
5.6+, on many Linux distress, they’ve stopped including MySQL by default).
It’s one of the ways in which CFML is a more integrated and mature
language, as database connectivity is assumed at the application server
level.

Update: I saw Mark posted pretty much the same thing when I was typing
this so apologies for some duplication. :slight_smile:

On June 17, 2015 at 11:18:17 AM, Phillip Senn (@Phillip_Senn) wrote:

That’s funny Adam.

I guess that’s why I’ve never bothered to post it as a question on
stackoverflow.
Afraid of getting downvoted like so many of my questions do.
But I know the people in the cf community are a kinder, gentler people.

Seriously, how do you SELECT * FROM Table1 using any other web authoring
programming language?
I looked at node.js for a little while but couldn’t understand how to do
the same thing that cfquery does.

And I don’t think I want to jump from ColdFusion to php.
From the outside looking in, it looks like php is just another scripting
language so why not stick with the one that I already know?

If anything, moving from cfquery to using stored procedures has moved most
of my logic out of ColdFusion, so if I ever do decide to transition, there
will certainly be less to do than there was a year ago.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Adam Cameron <@Adam_Cameron> wrote:

On 16 June 2015 at 21:48, Phillip Senn <@Phillip_Senn> wrote:

OK, let me ask a stupid question but has been bugging me for a very long
time:

I’d focus less on this question and put effort into working out how to
use google.


Adam

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Phillip,

It’s still SELECT * FROM Table1, but in Coldfusion the datasource connection is configured at the server leve, and the methods are native. In NodeJS, for example, you need to add the library to connect to the specific database type. Example for MySQL:

npm install node-mysql
Then:

//You can always scope this part globally in your application, but this is the connection config.
var mysql = require(‘mysql’);
var db = mysql.createConnection({
host : ‘localhost’,
user : ‘root’,
password : ‘’,
database : ‘my_database’
});

db.connect();
db.query(‘SELECT * from Table1’, function(err, rows, fields) {
//if no error, do stuff with your query result rows
if (!err){
for(var i in rows){
console.log(rows[i]);
}
} else {
throw err;
};
});
connection.end();

It’s a different approach. PHP is the same way, but the connectivity modules are installed explicitly when installing the PHP packages (In PHP 5.6+, on many Linux distress, they’ve stopped including MySQL by default). It’s one of the ways in which CFML is a more integrated and mature language, as database connectivity is assumed at the application server level.

Update: I saw Mark posted pretty much the same thing when I was typing this so apologies for some duplication. :)On June 17, 2015 at 11:18:17 AM, Phillip Senn (@Phillip_Senn) wrote:

That’s funny Adam.

I guess that’s why I’ve never bothered to post it as a question on stackoverflow.
Afraid of getting downvoted like so many of my questions do.
But I know the people in the cf community are a kinder, gentler people.

Seriously, how do you SELECT * FROM Table1 using any other web authoring programming language?
I looked at node.js for a little while but couldn’t understand how to do the same thing that cfquery does.

And I don’t think I want to jump from ColdFusion to php.

SELECT from Table1 is SQL, not any of the other languages, and the
correct syntax is SELECT fieldname(s) from table1.

Doing this is any language requires setting up a database connection,
and passing information to it. The syntax varies but it is not
necessarily any harder to this in any language as it in CFML - which
requires a datasource and a query.

i write in a lot of languages and my methodology for doing queries is
pretty much the same. Define the connection, build the query string,
pass the query string to the database and handle the results.

Productivity increases greatly when the focus is on building and using
algorithms and functions correctly instead of on syntax. You can
always look up the syntax.On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Phillip Senn <@Phillip_Senn> wrote:

OK, let me ask a stupid question but has been bugging me for a very long
time:

If you wanted to do:

SELECT * FROM Table1

in one of these newer languages, how would you do it?

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 3:17 AM, Mehdi B <@Mehdi_B> wrote:

I never embraced the UI component in CF, as I found them always too
limited and requiring more code to work correctly while bringing too much
dependencies. And if you check ACF11 from the main CF house Adobe and see
the bloatware shipped over mobile, what we can do? or say?

I love CF since it did ALL what I wanted even if in the old times CF 4.5
or 5.0 crashes were a pain once you start to push it a little but the
language, logic, syntax, simplicity was ahead of the time. Since macromedia
take over we ve seen some improvements but few. Hopefully we got railo
project, as it offered it offered an open source solution community driven.

I got many dev’s who abandonneed CF mainly as there is less demand for it
and currently in my area you sell CF dev only in 2 cases:

  1. maintenance for existing CF dev’s ( and some time customers are
    preparing the shift for another plateforms as they feel abandonned and no
    more dev’s).

  2. You have a new project without language requirement hardcoded in the
    specs and the customer will look for result rather than the tools.

We can’t ignore too that .net have evolved well and they finally
understood that bloatware UI are not the solutions and offer more support
for open standards or more clean MVC support. CF is more facing tought
competition from .net rather than nodeJS, also CF didn’t bank the JAVA roots
to push more the big java community to embrace it.

On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 2:18:12 AM UTC+2, Shawn Oden wrote:

I recently spoke with a senior developer about a completely unrelated
position. He knew of ColdFusion, he saw it on my resume, and when he asked
me about it, he asked me what my front-end developer skills were like “since
CF is a front-end language”. THAT is the misperception that we are dealing
with in this language. And unfortunately, Adobe isn’t really doing much to
help with that poor impression of what the language is really good at. Can
it do it? Absolutely. And that’s part of what makes it an interesting
language in my opinion. I don’t need 10 different dependencies to build a
good application from front to back and connect to a pretty wide range of
databases in almost no time at all. Now that doesn’t mean that I SHOULD be
building an entire site in ColdFusion. But the fact that I can do it is
sometimes helpful.

Anyway, I still say the language needs to go back to focusing on its
roots: making hard stuff easy. There are a bazillion ways to do any of the
UI stuff, which several people on this board have already taken their time
to demonstrate. We don’t need any more CF_BUZZWORDs in this language that
end up not getting used.


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OK, I added CFML to the list.
http://www.slant.co/topics/25/viewpoints/36/~what-is-the-best-programming-language-to-learn-first~cfml

I put http://lucee.org/ as the “get it here” link and then added
http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion-enterprise.html as a separate
source.

I’m not sure how popular Slant is.
Is it worth creating an account in order to vote? Meh.On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Judith Barnett <@Judith_Barnett> wrote:

CFML is the language. I would use that.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Phillip Senn <@Phillip_Senn> wrote:

By coincidence, I just got this from slant:

http://www.slant.co/topics/25/~what-is-the-best-programming-language-to-learn-first

So this raises another issue. Let’s say we all want to promote CFML:

Q: Should I add CFML as an option at the bottom of the page, or should I
add
Adobe ColdFusion or Lucee?


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