That about covers it for me. Has anyone else been able to get this running?
I tried yesterday.
Note: I have a goal of creating an app that is based on Lucee Express just
as a can I research.
John Farrar
So no more details? In the Lucee Meetup you said you didn’t have a JVM installed, that would be the reason. You need both a JVM and a JAVA_HOME environment variable as far as I remember
Regards
Mark Drew> On 8 Jun 2016, at 19:27, John Farrar <@John_Farrar> wrote:
That about covers it for me. Has anyone else been able to get this running? I tried yesterday.
Note: I have a goal of creating an app that is based on Lucee Express just as a can I research.
John Farrar
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What I am looking at is the barrier to adoption which we call friction in
marketing speak.
My opinion …
I was looking at this barrier yesterday, from the other side of it.
Somebody here asked for help creating a dependent drop down, a country /
states UI where selecting a country would populate the list of states for
that country. I googled for a minute and found an excellent jquery example
in PHP, countries → states, clear as a bell. He complained, saying he
wanted a fully fleshed out example in CFML, when he could have simply
copied and pasted the code, changing .php to .cfm and a php loop into a
cfml loop.
Programming is full of friction. I think we do ourselves a disservice by
perpetuating this “ColdFusion” idea that everything can be made so that
none of us have to confront challenges. Maybe it’s good marketing, but the
problem with that idea is that in any application of any value or
complexity, it’s simply not true. We cripple ourselves with the notion that
there should not be barriers and challenges in programming, that it should
be easy.
Installing the JVM isn’t hard to do, basically download and double click
the installer. It’s good practice for when it comes time to update the JVM.
Hand holding is fine, I’m not against it. There can be clear instructions
how to install Lucee. But I think we all, myself included, need to erase
any remnants of that original, alluring marketing message from Allaire /
Macromedia / Adobe from our heads - that promise of easy. Web application
programming just didn’t work out that way.
In the evolving technological environment we find ourselves in, the
friction of challenge is good. The slippery slide down easy is poisonous.
I have no objection to an easier installer. It’s the “ColdFusionish” idea
that the barrier to adoption can be removed or ameliorated. It ain’t so.
It’s the false promise that is the barrier.
n
You are welcome to raise a ticket: http://bugs.lucee.org
AFAIK There is one version of lucee express for all operating systems and it would fail in all if they didn’t have Java installed as it doesn’t include a JRE. The installer might include it but I don’t know.
Regards
Mark Drew> On 8 Jun 2016, at 19:38, John Farrar <@John_Farrar> wrote:
Mark,
First, thanks for the reply. In the Railo Express, did we need to install those things? It seems like we did not. What I am looking at is the barrier to adoption which we call friction in marketing speak.
Granted, it is OK with me if that is not the goal of this product but if it is a possible use case then I certainly want to explore it as an option.
Regards,
John Farrar
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Wow, interesting opinion Nando. I can do these things but my goal was not
for developers but end users. Imagine if a “smart phone” required these
steps to get set up. There are setup steps the end user accepts and things
they do not. My goal was the end user.
I do see your point with developers, and it that is a different case for
sure. Yet, what is obviously easy to me may be abstract to another. We do
want to make sure we are not loosing developers because something that
seems easy to me is not easy to others. That is where usability testing
comes in. Sadly it is something we are not good at doing with developers.
Typically we think usability testing is only about end users.On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Nando Breiter <@Nando_Breiter> wrote:
What I am looking at is the barrier to adoption which we call friction in
marketing speak.
My opinion …
I was looking at this barrier yesterday, from the other side of it.
Somebody here asked for help creating a dependent drop down, a country /
states UI where selecting a country would populate the list of states for
that country. I googled for a minute and found an excellent jquery example
in PHP, countries → states, clear as a bell. He complained, saying he
wanted a fully fleshed out example in CFML, when he could have simply
copied and pasted the code, changing .php to .cfm and a php loop into a
cfml loop.Programming is full of friction. I think we do ourselves a disservice by
perpetuating this “ColdFusion” idea that everything can be made so that
none of us have to confront challenges. Maybe it’s good marketing, but the
problem with that idea is that in any application of any value or
complexity, it’s simply not true. We cripple ourselves with the notion that
there should not be barriers and challenges in programming, that it should
be easy.Installing the JVM isn’t hard to do, basically download and double click
the installer. It’s good practice for when it comes time to update the JVM.
Hand holding is fine, I’m not against it. There can be clear instructions
how to install Lucee. But I think we all, myself included, need to
erase any remnants of that original, alluring marketing message from
Allaire / Macromedia / Adobe from our heads - that promise of easy. Web
application programming just didn’t work out that way.In the evolving technological environment we find ourselves in, the
friction of challenge is good. The slippery slide down easy is poisonous.I have no objection to an easier installer. It’s the “ColdFusionish” idea
that the barrier to adoption can be removed or ameliorated. It ain’t so.
It’s the false promise that is the barrier.
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